A Small Glimmer of Hope that Chivalry Isn’t Dead
June 5, 2008
Chivalry may not be dead, but I think it’s on life support. Men don’t have to bend over backwards and treat women like babies, but really, is it that hard to open a car door? Or open a door, period? Your wrist isn’t going to break.
I always think of that line from A Bronx Tale, where if a girl doesn’t reach over and unlock a guy’s car door, she’s essentially a piece of garbage. It goes like this: “If she doesn’t reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in, that means she’s a selfish broad and all you’re seeing is the tip of the iceberg. You dump her and you dump her fast.” Well, that goes both ways.
I think that some men think that women are offended by chivalrous gestures. Um, I’m pretty sure that we aren’t. I’m not saying that you need to order for us in a restaurant (which, let’s face it, is kind of lame. “The lady will have…” No thanks.) But a few simple gestures are nice.
The blog Dating Thoughts (written by San Francisco singletons in their 30s; hmmm, I think I know another blog like that) has a good post on a few simple things men can do to treat women nicely on dates. Their suggestions: Open doors, open car doors, help her with her coat and help her with her chair. I don’t think any of those require much effort. You’ll get props. And who knows, maybe more.
Oh, and—hallelujah!—the post was written by a MAN. Nicely done, Mr. Write. Wanna have dinner sometime?
Read the entire post here: http://www.datingthoughts.com/2008/03/03/old-school-etiquette-and-chivalry/
June 5, 2008 at 4:25 pm
A nice guy doesn’t open doors just for you, he holds the door open for the little old lady, his friends, your friends, and whoever happens to be coming in the door right behind you.
If you don’t want chivalry to die, maybe you should try opening the door for your guy instead of expecting him to do so? It goes both ways.
Rather then making the guy open doors, move furniture, supply precious metals, transportation, dead blossoms and provide sustenance, maybe he should just drop $200 on the table up front and be done with it?
Although, if you choose to exchange sexual favours for goods and services, I suppose that’s your choice, who am I to judge.
June 5, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Sadly, chivalry is dying. My very, VERY pregnant sister who rides BART to and from work everyday has NOT ONCE been offered a seat by a man. Instead, it is always a woman who offers up her seat so this eight months pregnant woman won’t have to stand for 45 minutes.
June 5, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Wow, Gothkat. I was really just talking about common courtesy, and that a little goes a long way. I agree that it goes both ways, trust me.
June 5, 2008 at 5:22 pm
what part of this post reads “whore” to you gothkat? it’s a comment on the hope that good guys still exist in a world where douchebags (male and female) run rampant. It has nothing to do with being on your best behavior, but rather executing simple acts of respect which are few and far between these days.
June 5, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Agreed. Not sure how “common courtesy” got translated into “goods and services” and “sexual favors,” but I guess everyone’s entitled to their opinion.
June 5, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Gothkat, I don’t want a man who just opens doors for me on one or two dates. I want a man who is respectful/courtesy all the time. I would absolutely extend the same respect and courtesy to him. Nothing about wanting a little common respect/courtesy from someone who supposedly cares about you screams “whore” to me.
June 5, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I guess part of it is the weird one sided expectations that people dream up (and guys are just as bad).
It’s more then just holding doors, it’s paying for dinner, and a cab home if she’s had too much to drink. Guys are expected to buy shiny objects (okay, this is further down the line), whereas women generally are not.
Where I get whore from is “You’ll get props. And who knows, maybe more.” — That very much reads that by behaving nicely, the guy might get some (and yes, I’m looking at my own version of “extended chivalry” here)
If you want a respectful guy, how he treats you during the honeymoon part of the dating phase (in other words, the first few dates and your early time together as bf/gf) isn’t really a good indicator, a better indicator is how he treats others.
More interesting during this phase is the guy who is willing to pay, who offers freely (within his means), but graceful accepts the female buying rather then getting emasculated if she buys. Pick the guy who always offers to pick you up, but lets you pick him up too (controlling guys can’t handle this — You can weed them out *fast*)
June 6, 2008 at 12:37 am
Hey Gothkat, thanks for responding. The “and who knows, maybe more” was intended more as a joke than anything else (I mean, I’m not going to give it up just because someone opens a door for me), but I can see where it would be taken that way.
And, I definitely see what you’re saying about how guys treating others being very important. You’re very right. But, I guess I’m a little old fashioned when it comes to the little gestures. I’ll admit it.
All very thoughtful comments.
June 8, 2008 at 5:16 pm
It is the infamous “Chivalry is dead” debate! I’ll have to throw my hat in the ring. Where do I begin?
Our society, myself included, has been slowly progressing to an egalitarian state. Men and women are equal. Women have the same rights and responsibilities as men. The traditional role of breadwinner is no longer domain of the male species. I love this concept. As I state on my “about the blogger” section, I respect men and women equally (the amount of respect that they earn from me). Now, the question is, “Do I perform the traditional acts of chivalry? (i.e. opening doors, taking coats, etc.” The answer: Sometimes. I will perform these acts for both men and women to show respect, care, and affection. I may open a door for an elderly individual or a date that I think highly of, but why would I do so for a female stranger? In an egalitarian state, chivalry is not dead. It is equally selective. Women can not expect it of men, but it is a method of communication that men have at their disposal. It is both a thorn in my side and a wonderful tool.
June 12, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I can safely say that chivalry in dating isn’t dead. However, it’s in hiding. It’s rarer than a bee fart in the winter. Or, less vulgarly, a desert flower in Manhattan.
Thanks for the mention! And *blush* offer of dinner! Don’t think my girlfriend would like that much though.
June 13, 2008 at 11:35 am
If you want a quality guy with common courtesy, look at how he treats other men.
Frankly, if he’s under the age of 60 and not from the South, and is holding doors open for only women, he isn’t chivalrous – he’s just trying to get in women’s pants.
A guy wtih common courtesy will hold the door open for anybody (male or female) and offer to help anyone (not just women).
Women should also do the same (as you point out with the Bronx Tale example).
People in general should just be more courteous.